3 10's vs. 2 12's or 2 15's Another Sub Question!!!!!

Discussion in 'Car & Audio' started by Grindaz4life, Jul 9, 2004.

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  1. Grindaz4life

    Grindaz4life New Member

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    I was thinking that about instead of saving to get 2 12's inch Subs that I should get 3 10inch Subs and have my music wanging like a had 2 15's in the back.

    But I was wondering would be cheaper or more expensive. Because where I stay every body get's a set of 12's but and I had a friend who had a 10'inch sub in the back and it didn't sound bad at all.

    So if I purchased 3 10's would it be cheaper and would it sould better?

    Help a brotha out.!!!!!
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  2. SIN!

    SIN! The Truest

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    10"s will move faster (be more accurate) than 12"s or 15"s...but as a consequence will move less air (not be as loud). I would go with the 3 10"s or a pair of 12"s...good balance between SPL and accuracy...
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  3. trifle

    trifle New Member

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    fucking liar
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  4. SIN!

    SIN! The Truest

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    Explain.
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  5. identity-X

    identity-X No Talent Assclown

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    you'd get crisper, thumpier bass from the 3 10's

    if you're looking to shake the windows out of your car listening to songs with deep 20MHz basslines the 15's would be the way to go

    get the 12's...
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  6. trifle

    trifle New Member

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    whoa whoa, slow down there buckwheat, wtf are you talking about?
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  7. trifle

    trifle New Member

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    LMAoo good looks on not takin me serious... I'll try to explain shortly, though I've explained on this board several times before, but I still think search is off for bandwidth reasons...

    Alright, basically unless you have a woofer from a company that uses the same motor for all of their lines of subwoofers, then there will be no difference in speed really, and maybe, just maybe, a slight, negligible difference in the transient response of the woofers in comparison to one another...

    A lot of this really ties into the enclosure that the subwoofer is used in, probably moreso than the actual woofer design itself, to an extent.. meaning you can change the level of "tightness" by using different designs, sizes, etc no matter what the sub may be..

    Now, I could get technical if you want, somewhat at least, which I'm willing to do, but I don't feel like typing out some long ass shit unless people want to know, to either know, or to learn something... other than that I'm gonna just leave it at th is the way that it is... but if anyone wants to know WHY that this is the way that it is, I'll type some stuff out for ya
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  8. SIN!

    SIN! The Truest

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    Wouldn't the increased mass of the moving assembly of a larger subwoofer affect compliance and therefore make the speaker less accurate?
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  9. trifle

    trifle New Member

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    As I stated, only if the two subwoofers used the same motor, and one that was geared for the smaller model obviously.. So yes, if you have a company that doesn't put much effort into their line, you can have such a result, however even still, it can only be a negligible difference, it depends on many factors that I'll touch here shortly... and I wouldn't say less accurate, I definitely see where people get the idea of it, but all of that is pretty null, and more "hey shouldn't it be this way because it makes sense" than "well let's actually break it down and see if it DOES make sense"

    Also, keep in mind, that this only would hold true in one line of the same subwoofer, differing only in size, and would not traverse brands, motor designs, etc.. So one 15 from Brand X can be "faster" than a 10 from Brand Y... which really doesn't matter anyways

    The alignment of the subwoofer in it's box, also known as QTC, plays the biggest part really, it tells you how the speaker, coupled with the enclosure, will be aligned, or basically, what type of response you should get

    A larger box (sealed environment) will give you a lower QTC, which determines the damping (motion of the cone).. So basically, larger box = greater low end response, loss of 'midbass' response, and actually less excursion from the cone.. The reason for this being there is less of an air spring in a larger box, so rather than having the air behind it (from the waves coming off of the back of the box) to help control the cone, the subwoofer has to rely more on its suspension to control the motion of the cone, if the suspension is not up to par, there's less control on the cone obviously.. but if the suspension has what it takes, it will still move just as fast and efficiently as needed..

    A smaller enclosure would yield a higher QTC, more of an air spring inside of the box, less low end, more midbass... the higher level of the spring as opposed to a lower QTC box helps move the cone, resulting in greater excursion, but also from the air being compressed in the tighter space the cone can have extra movement, which tends to create that overhung/ringy type sound, as the subwoofer is producing sounds not from the signal

    now if you remember years ago, there weren't very many small box woofers around, even the cheapest woofers needed relatively large boxes to perform well, and if you look now, everyone's touting small box woofers, not only has that come from technology allowing smaller boxes, it's also come from companies recommending a higher QTC alignment than usual, marketing basically...

    quickness of a subwoofer is not even really an issue, you're playing mainly frequencies below 100 hz, in most cases below 80, in other cases, below 63hz or so... if you know about sound waves, basically the lower the frequency, the longer the wave, the less speed needed to recreate the sound... even if you play a subwoofer around 125 hz or so, it still doesn't need to move very fast to reproduce the sound, well within the scope of basically all subwoofers, even tho not many people have their subs playing up this high... but once again, the QTC is the determining factor, obviously if you try to put a subwoofer in a QTC alignment of .5 which is called 'overdamping' or approaching critically damp, you're going to have troubles reproducing higher notes as well, if you throw somethin in an alignment of .9 or so, you'll have trouble with the lower notes... this is caused by cone control, by the air spring inside of the box, and the suspension, not by the speed of the subwoofer, just the control of the cone, in an effort to keep everything linear.. .7-.8 is generally what is recommended for in car response, with .707 being considered 'audiophile' but hey, that all depends on your tastes, many people are happy with an alignment around .8, some like more, some like less, definitely very subjective

    Back to sound waves, there is only ONE way to produce a sound wave through a speaker, the speaker has to complete a certain number of full cycles (cone reaching a certain excursion, returning to its resting point, and hitting the rearward extension, and back to rest... that being ONE full cycle)... If you have 40 of these cycles that happen in one second, that's 40 hz, if you have 80, that's 80hz... if it does this ANY slower or ANY faster, you have a different tone... your subwoofer plays the tone given to it, not what the speed of it makes it play... so that alone pretty much lets you know that speed is not really a factor

    now let's take a 10 and a 15 inch driver, and get them both playing at 100db's... the 10 will obviously have to work harder to get to this point, more excursion, meaning more motor involvement than the 15 inch, which would have relatively less work to do to reach that sound level... speakers use a magnetic gap in which the coil sits, the coil moves in and out of the gap, with a 15 inch model (even with the 10 and the 15 having the same length motor), will, as previously stated, have to move less to create that sound level... that means that you still have more of your motor in the magnetic gap, whereas with the 10 inch model, more of the coil will be out of the gap, to reach the excursion needed to hit 100db's (or any other frequency for that matter)... basically, more coil in the gap = greater control due to more surface area of the motor being subjected to the magnetic force inside of the motor gap, therefore you stay more linear, greater control = greater sound..
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  10. L-e-x

    L-e-x Its me Dawg

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    i would rather get the 2 15" speakers, they would take up less space then the 3 10" speakers in a conventional bass box, but if you are getting a custom molded box then go for the 3 10" cuz then if anythin ever happens to 1 speaker you have to more and dont have to replace as much, if one of you 15"s were to blow or get cracked in the winter i would madd more pissed
    anyways thats my oppinion
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  11. trifle

    trifle New Member

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    In the same line of speakers, you will need less space for the 3 10s than you would 2 15s, given that they have the same alignment....

    Okay, I think I deciphered what you're trying to say, but it's still not making sense, care to explain for me?

    The surface area of a single 15 will be greater than that of 2 10s... simple geometry... Also, if you have your speakers paralleled, and you blow one, there is a good chance that the other two will also be harmed then, or eventually, so it wouldn't really matter...
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