2 years in, what's your thoughts on the lastest 'Next Gen' installment?

Discussion in 'Game Zone' started by Look im Gangsta, May 4, 2007.

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  1. LiQuiD6

    LiQuiD6 Left hook Justice

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    the pricing of games went up 10 bucks because it was 50 bucks forever...with inflation and the cost of living goin up you HAVE to raise the price of product....you dont think that translates over....???how many years was the price 50 bucks....thats what im getting at to you....you EXPECT the price to stay the same through 4 generations of systems???? from the snes all the way to the 360/ps3 you expect games to STAY 50 bucks??? dont be foolish and try to use a strawman arguement on the 10 to 100 comment.....10 years ago a ten man team could make 1 game on the snes or ps1 with no problem......the man hours required to do games are a lot more now...the graphics are more intricate..you have physics systems now..you have more space to do more with a game so you have to use that space......and you have surround sound....there is a lot more shit to a game now then there was 10 years ago.......you think they will get away with creating something that looks like zelda on the n64 on the ps3? There are more man hours invovled in making games today....there are tons more designers involved in 1 character now then there were in the past just to make a whole game......

    why are you making this arguement about games? anyone would think you were talking about the rising cost of gas.....

    whats the difference between mgs 1 and 2? ledges and locker?

    whats so different about mario?? you jump from platform to platfrom on pipes?

    you see how stupid of an arguement that is? mario is purely fantasy...metal gear solid is fantasy with some inspiration from real world events and situations....there is more crazy shit you can do with mario then you can with metal gear without making it fucking stupid......and there is a lot of dumb shit in mgs cause they try thier hardest to make it different without making it abandon the title....

    i mean.....give me a break? your right your just like malo....you both argue for the sake of argueing..if you dont like something....koo....but you guys make it sound like the world is fucke dup just cause you dont like shit without any logical explination...it just means you have shitty taste...you guys just need to suck it up and deal with it..i mean malo fuckin loves hitman for christs sake.......
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  2. Wrectify1

    Wrectify1 New Member

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    That's the problem with these games and some people who play them..they get so caught up in graphics, physics engines and realism that they either totally neglect or willingly choose to deny the fact that these so called next generation games are lacking in "substance" and "originality". Do you guys remember when Gamepro magazine was in existence and they rated games in which one category was termed "fun factor". These new games not only lack overall fun factor..but they also have LOW replay ability.

    Let's use Oz's Mario game for example.....Mario was a very simple two button control platform game that was not only fun..but it had massive replay value..which is why it lives on through Wii and various handheld systems. Nintendo games were fun because the emphasis was more so on level design..etc. Now, take a typical 360 or PS3 game....first of all..you spend a lot of time in the instruction manual trying to learn controls. It's almost like trying to do Calculus before you've learned algebra. Learning the controls is learning the algebra..THEN you can move on to play. While the graphics might be nice...etc....the levels usually aren't well thought out...the boss fights(although they look intimidating because of graphical content) wind up to be very cheap and lame. The games are often a whole lot shorter. In terms of game costs...no..they are not higher due to some magical increase or need for manpower.....they are higher because more time is being spent developing & refining graphical content..rather level design. Now, in terms of games..Gears of War was probably the best game I have played in a really long time...but that is it for the 360. Gears of War, while it was a good game...it has very low replay value. Nothing makes me want to own that game.

    These new games though...they are either trash..or some rip off of another game. I don't think that it's because we have bad tastes as gamers..I think it's more so we aren't willing to settle for mediocre titles and consoles. I am not a hardcore gamer either..I'm not on Xbox live 24/7, I'm not sweating over achievement points..nor do I have time to play games 24/7...but...I think that when we as gamers period..sit down to play a game...we want to play a title that not only has a high fun factor....but also something that we can "pick up and play" without some massive learning curve. From an unbiased viewpoint....I have to agree that the games and consoles are becoming more costly but the quality is not parallel to it. Back in the day..I didn't mind dropping 50 bones for Mario..because I knew it was going to be fun. It's not about being picky..well then again..maybe it is...buyers have a right to be picky and they need not settle for a shitty product.

    In terms of these consoles...they are adding all of these extras like DVD players and Blue ray to compensate where they are lacking. Yes, the hardware SEEMS impressive...but consoles like 360 and PS3 wield the power of a PC that was made maybe 2 years ago. It's only groundbreaking because you are now seeing it within a game console...and not something that you're used to..like a desktop PC. Believe it or not...the core technology governing the PS3 and 360 is horribly outdated...yet people are mesmerized by them. Nintendo has the right idea..that is why they are still around. 360 and PS3 does cater to fanboys who gravitate toward any game or game system blindly...even if they know in the back of their minds that the products they own are pieces of shit.

    People can disagree with me...that's fine...but some people around here need to start acknowledging the open truth. Gaming is not the same...and that isn't a compliment.
    test
  3. LiQuiD6

    LiQuiD6 Left hook Justice

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    see i can understand this arguement a lot clearer cause you make a point in how the controls effect the pick up and playability of a game....and i cant deny that games today have a steeper learning curve then they used to......

    and your correct about the core power of the 360 and ps3 being less then a regular pc....it should be....it isnt upgradable..but games being made on the same platform allow for optomization that isnt available on pc because there are so m any variables with hardware.....so it even things out for the first couple years....the pc will more then likely pull far ahead by the end of the year as far as graphic capability easily measured by the casual eye

    as far as games being a rip off of another game....its been happening forever.....there were tons of mario clones..tones of street fighter clones...the only difference between then and now is that the industry is bigger now..and there are more people making more clones...but for every clone there is a shadow of the colossus....a god of war......a ninja gaiden......a gears of war.....

    the first years of a video game systems life arent the prettiest......the 360 has had oblivion....gears of war....project gotham racing 3.....rainbow six vegas....and ghost recon advanced warfighter 1 and 2.....

    rainbow six was a failing series....its now considered a top game series again.....ghost recon was completely retooled and redone.....project gotham racing is considered the best in the series....oblivion was a very ambitious rpg that got tons of acclaim from fans and the industry....gears of war i dont even need to speak on....people who love it love it..people who dont..dont......if you dont play online....you dont reap the benefits of gears replayability.....

    so i mean i cant agree when people say the quality of the games so far are terrible....when ive played the best games in series that i have enjoyed in the past..and a new game in gears of war.....

    i just cant agree with yall on that cause the type of games i prefer are being made....
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  4. Wrectify1

    Wrectify1 New Member

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    Yea, everyone has their favorites in terms of genre. Maybe the games that are out now reside in a genre that you like..which is cool...everybody likes different things..that's what makes an individual gamer. I just kind of wish they'd come out with some nice action/adventure games...that's the genre I like. It can't be just any game..I want it to be good. I did play Gears online for a while though...people are just too competitive on there..it's almost sickening. I remember repeatedly owning people online...getting the most kills and wins on my squad..then they'd kick me out of the room. I'm like..."it's just a game..you know?". Sometimes online play takes the fun out of a game...although playing college hoops 2k7 online was A LOT of fun.
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  5. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    I agree with damn near all of this. Great post. Yes, we do have the right to be picky, we are consumers. Anyone who purchases a product of even considers it has the right to comment on that product. We keep these companies in business.

    Another interesting thing I just thought of was again...about this little inflation post. I was thinking about my computer. My first computer I bought, back in 01 or so. I bought TOP OF THE LINE, and I paid about 2800 dollars back then. The computer I just bought last summer I paid about 1200 for and it is about 8x faster...and its just nicer in every concievable way. So why is it that computer prices go down and video game prices double? You can honestly get a decent computer for the price of a PS3.

    At anyrate, I dont really even give a shit about the price of games. I aint hurting for money, id go and buy every system out right now with 20 games if I wanted. The point is that Im paying more but getting less. Kind of like Gasoline. Why do people get upset about gas prices rising? Because your getting the same product, and its costing you more and more money.

    Again tho, I dont think they increased the team size between PS2 and PS3. It aint like they said "PS3 IS COMING OUT, LETS GO HIRE 4000 PEOPLE". No, its more than likely the same fucking people doing the same thing that they been doing, only thing that ever changes is the graphics, and thus the technology to produce those graphics becomes more efficient at the same time.

    Wrektify said Gears Of War was one of the better games he played, and I think the game is lame as fuck. Granted, I dont use my xbox live anymore, the core single player game is trash. Its the same shit over and over and over and over with hardly any variance in enviroment or enemies. Hell, there isnt even but 1 memorable boss battle in the game and thats the end boss. The Bezerker is a complete rip off from Resident Evil 4, and the spider shit has been done several times before as well...and thats the best they could do??? Ok, the chainsaw gun was a dope idea, I wont front on that....but "The Hammer Of Dawn" is the corniest shit I ever seen.

    "We need a new gun, something really powerful"

    "How about we summon a beam from the sky on some He Man shit, and use that to beat tough enemies from AFAR where they cant reach you to put up a fight anyway".

    Really, if you played Gears Of War for 5 minutes, youve played about 90 percent of what it has to offer, and that shit is pathetic. I bought that trash too.

    lol Word. The casual player has no place online. People devote their lifes to games and are so incredibly good is it sickening. They will kill you, then know where your getting respawned and kill you again before you can do anything about it. I aint bitching about that though...online shit is fun, but...Its not really fun unless you have enough time to devote to it to become good.
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  6. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    I will say I loved Rainbow 6 Vegas and right now I like Crackdown alot. Although I just beat Crackdown, so there really aint a whole lot to do at this point, but all in all it was a very original game that I liked alot. Actually, im dreading playing GTA4 cause Ima wanna leap on top of them buildings and I wont be able to :/

    I quit playing Vegas, I must have got real busy or something, but normally when I quit a game I quit for good. Seens how its hard to start up in the middle of the game and learn to play the shit again. I do agree with the "pick up and play" shit. Every single madden game comes with a new feature...but how many of them have made the games more fun instead of more real.
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  7. Wrectify1

    Wrectify1 New Member

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    Hahahaha. Yea, I never thought about it..that Bezerker is a ripoff from Res. Evil. I knew it reminded me of something...I just couldn't place it. It kind of reminded me of the tyrant.... But yea, I'll never play Gears again. Concerning the online stuff..yea..these people are VERY competitive and threaten heart attacks over these games. I've gotten my ass handed to me several times by these clowns who make video games and online play their lives.

    BTW, I never played Rainbow 6 Vegas...is it really that good? I heard it was ridiculously real and frustratingly hard. If it's frustratingly hard..forget abt it...I won't waste my time playing it. I can't stand games that frustrate me.
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  8. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    It prolly is. I know its hard...I aint finished it lol
    The sad thing is...the shit is even called a Beserker in Resident Evil 4. So it aint like they ripped it off as much as they just copied it.
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  9. OurSin

    OurSin lol @ equality

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    prices of computers go up for top of the line models.......You got one 8X's faster than a 2001 one model, so you basically bought the 2003 model..lol...

    games take 100's of people to make, they all gotta get paid. Video game makers put up the most over time of almost any business....i forget the numbers but it's a big problem. It's because their is so much programing involved and variables and shit. and ehy take probably atleast 4 years to make with brand new engines.

    they went up from 50, to 60 because the new gen consoles cost so much to produce and hey have to make their money back on games. They sell consoles at a loss, except the wii.

    I dont' agree at all about games not being innovative anymore, it's just yall must be playing the average games that get terrible reviews. I've allwasy been real picky about what i cop, so i don't just buy shit at the store i get the reviews and see what it's all about first.

    Gaming is great right now, and getting better. but if you playing spider man and shit then you just getting the wrong shit

    and honestly if you don't like gears of war, you just got bad taste anyway. That shit was a great amazing game, not because of it's graphics but because of it's gameplay. shit is critically acclaimed and adored by fans for a reason.
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  10. Wrectify1

    Wrectify1 New Member

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    I know for a fact that games don't take hundreds of people to make. Nowadays, all one needs is a developer or two, a script writer, a few computer programmers, several voice actors and computer programs that are capable of doing physics calculations. When people used to make football games....they used to invite actual players in to capture their motions..etc. I doubt that they even have to do that anymore......we live in a computer age. Computer are capable of cutting manpower by at least 1 half. Videogame makers put up more time that any business? Nah, I highly doubt that. It takes several engineers and physicists just to design the BLUEPRINT for ONE automobile. Then it must cross the desks of LEAD(Principle) engineers and physicists(a.ka. Ph.D Scientists). It takes a lot of manpower to design a computer program....run it..and iron out the kinks...and they still end up not getting it right (Ala Windows Vista). So, I'd have to disagree with that arguement.

    In terms of the prices of these games...obviously...they arn't THAT expensive to make. Think of the situation from an economic standpoint.....a game costs us, the consumers....50 dollars. How much did the store pay for the game? Maybe what? 30 dollars max per game? The store HAS to make a profit somehow...in this case..it would be 20 bucks per game sold. So....If say....a company like Konami sells the game to a game store for 30 dollars......Konami has to make a profit as well right?...hmm....lets say it costs them 15 dollars to make one disk......well....they can sell it to a store for 30 and make 15 dollars profit per game. you catch my drift?....The games themselves do not seem as though they are expensive to make.....it's just that everybody is out to maximize profit...and we suffer as the consumer. It's the same with these gas prices as well....except that we HAVE to buy the stuff in order to get to work or school. Not to mention that the problem with this country is that we inflate our prices often....Japan and China have LOW production costs on ALOT of things due to lower wages..etc.

    Concerning the costs of videogame systems.......yes..they are getting more expensive because these companies are forcing all of these extra components down our throats such as BlueRay and HD formats. I'm not going to complain about DVD because that is the gaming format..that isn't a problem. But...If anyone wants blueray...and apparently not many people do.....then they can buy it separately. Why would I pay $600 for a game system and depreciate even quicker by constantly watching movies with it?? It makes no sense.

    In terms of the statement "gaming is great right now"....I seriously have to disagree with you. Look..it's like this. Let's say that old school gaming is like Mama's cooking and today's gaming is like eating Mcdonald's. Once you eat ur mom's cooking...and then you eat Mickey D's..ur like....damn.....why am I eating this lcrappy food? Nothing compares to old vintage mama style cooking. But, why did I choose to eat Mcdonald's?...because I was hungry.....desperate for something to eat and I don't live at home anymore so I can't have mama's cooking...unless it's Thanksgiving. =o). It's analogous with games.......the same people that are calling us picky are the ones that are hungry and desperate for a good game and they have begun to settle for the "Mcdonald's type" videogames...which is basically playing any damn game as long as your friends tell you that it's good and a biased magazine convinces you to do so. If you don't believe me....pull out one of ur vintage systems from the closet..start playing some games and I guarantee you that you won't want to deal with these Mcdonald's type crappy, lazy designed games again.
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  11. OurSin

    OurSin lol @ equality

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    ^^then you don't know much......lol @ for a fact......

    if your talking about a demo that's another story...maybe i'm exagerating a little

    probably smaller studios got at least 30-40 people on a project....bigger ones from 50 - 100

    try looking at the credits of a video game after you beat it....

    and yall type to much...lol

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/data/927345.html

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/data/932295.html

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/data/928234.html

    and just think about development costs http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/crossplatform.ars/2
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  12. OurSin

    OurSin lol @ equality

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    and vintage games are overatted...they were fun way back, but only a few i can go back and play today......most were terrible....
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  13. LiQuiD6

    LiQuiD6 Left hook Justice

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    thank you.....
    .....i finished rainbow six vegas on single player a couple weeks ago and the credits were about a full 3 or 4 minutes of name scrolling......you guys have NO CLUE how much work is put into a video game these days......splinter cell ? tons of credits.....metal gear solid? holy shit son...


    and i agree...vintage games dont fare so well these days........i cant go back and play many oldschool games......the only ones i can still play are simple certified classics like galaga....dig dug.......

    I have a ps1 emulator on my psp......i was playing resident evil 1 and 3.....and stopped.....cause they werent enjoyable anymore...the controls sucked ass compared to games now.......early 3d was really shitty.......pretty much ever ps1 game that i put on my psp that i once liked was damn near boring.....
    the old mario games are koo but i get tired of em after a couple minutes......its nostalgic....but id rather play splintercell over many older titles......mgs 1 still holds up really well.......the legend of zelda on snes holds up very well......but in general many older games just dont cut it anymore....i cant play goldeneye anymore...as great as it was it is inferior to newer fps games........
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  14. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    I gaurentee my computer is nicer than yours. I got the 06 model, since it was 06 at the time. Computer hardware continues to go down in price while video game hardware seems to double every 5 of 6 years.
    I only buy shit top of the line...that way shit lasts.

    As for all that shit, quite frankly I dont give a fuck about their production or overtime. The place where I work pays alot of overtime to, but we do not raise the price of our product because of it. Paying overtime is better than having staffed members anyway, because with staff you have to pay benefits, 401ks and all kinds of other perks. You cant make a legitimate arguement no matter how hard you try.

    lol @ Gears of War gameplay being great. Why? You've never played a third person shooter where you shoot at people with guns, and throw grenades? The only thing innovative about the game was the ducking, and wall switching shit. Even so, thats been in games for years, its only now been made easier to use and more automated.
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  15. OurSin

    OurSin lol @ equality

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    Gears of war gameplay is great, because it's FUN.....Mario gameplay is bad cause all you do is run around and collect coins and jump on things??......no because it was FUN....games are meant to be fun. It dosn't have to be something brand new, there are no new ideas, just innovative takes on old ones. The ducking and wall switching adds a tactical depth to it that isn't in any other game (or atleast done well in any other game). and it's fun

    a good game is a fun game that is well made and reaches it's full potential.

    and if you got the 06 model, your shit is better than mine..lol...I paid 2000 for mine in like 05.....top of the line dell at the time, it still keeps up though
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  16. OurSin

    OurSin lol @ equality

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    I mean when is shooting something in the face not fun??? Maybe 50 cent bullet proof
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  17. WWIII

    WWIII It has begun...

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    That is the last thing I read before I decided it is pointless to argue with you on this topic. That statement is just baffling in itself. You wanted innovative games.. Zelda is one of the most amazing franchises in video game history and you think it's a shitty game? *smh* I won't even try to reason with you again.
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  18. Wrectify1

    Wrectify1 New Member

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    Actually..you know what's weird.....I never liked Zelda either....never could get into it. It was always pointless to me. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. It's kind of pointless though..in terms of arguing about what games are better because everyone has their own likes and dislikes and noone has the authority to try to persuade or trying to impose their own opinions on someone else. The argument will just go in circles..so..it's best to just accept a difference of opinion and move on with life. Within myself..I know that I refuse to waste my money and time on games that I think are shitty....if someone else wants to play them...be my guest.

    There does appear to be a correlation around here....all of the hardcore gamers on this board are 99% 360 fans and you all enjoy the same types of games. The casual fans seem to enjoy vintage gaming more and are not satisfied with the next generation era of games......interesting....Could it be that the gaming industry is targeting the hardcore gaming audience more nowadays? Which explains the success of the Nintendo Wii in luring in casual gamers? hmmm....
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  19. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    lol I worded that wrong. I made 2 seperate comments that should not be linked together. The reason I wont play Zelda is because I dont like the RPG genre, not because its a shitty game.

    But the reason I wont play games that are low rated is because I dont devote a ton of time to gaming, so when I do play...I wanna play something great.
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  20. -Oz-

    -Oz- ^^^^^

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    lol Thats what im saying. I even upgraded my shit before they sent it, just cause shit was so cheap. I got 2 gigs of memory, like 500 gigs on the hard drives...and its cheaper than when I had a 20 gig hard drive with 256mb of memory.

    I also got a 20 inch flat screen monitor, and while I had a 19 inch back then, this one is way nicer. I remember my old monitor alone cost like 700 bucks, this new one is like 300.

    But thats my point...why do computer prices go down and video games go up?? Obviously to cover the developement costs and what not...I mean, it is expected...but the leaps are getting ridiculous. I mean think about it, companies spend all this time making systems, then a yr later release a more efficient model of the same system. They know they are going to do the shit, they know how to do the shit. It aint like technology is advancing that quickly that they can upgrade shit that fast. So why not just make them cheaper from the get go??

    Again, I dont care about the money...but everyone wants to see value on their money. If Bill Gates buys a 20 thousand dollar car, and he has problems with it, he aint just gonna say "fuck it, 20k aint nothing", he still gonna get it fixed on principal.
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